Thujone

Topic created by Old Nick
on Sun, 11 Jan 2009 at 14:34

Old Nick said on Sun, 11 Jan 2009 at 14:34...

"Thujone brightens colours and gives them a tendency to strobe, without transforming them into flames and snakes and other scary stuff. Plus you can still understand people when they are talking, only their voice is seriously out of sync with their lips and every gesture seems hyper-exaggerated. It's kind of like watching an animated cartoon drawn by Picasso with dialogue by Frank Zappa. And that is why I dance with the Green Fairy"

The Free-Floating Hallucination
Lone Star Nirvarna by Richard Eugene

Anonymous said on Mon, 12 Jan 2009 at 12:52...

Why not make modern absinthe exactly in accordance with the old recipies, thujone levels? 50mg/L thujone? I base the figure on that study carried out on pre-ban and also modern absinthes in which the highest thujone level found in a pre-ban absinthe was determined to be about 48 mg/L thujone / thuyone. Placing restrictions on pre-ban recipies and production method to simply comply with America's thujone-free standard diminishes the authenticity of American absinthes.

Ergo said on Tue, 13 Jan 2009 at 08:27...

>on that study

"Tant que l'on aura pas stocké une absinthe un siècle pour vérifier, on ne saura pas si la thuyone reste stable dans l'absinthe ou non" Marie-Claude Delahaye du Musée de l'absinthe d'Auvers sur Oise

Oui!

ty9 said on Tue, 13 Jan 2009 at 14:51...

"As long as l' one will not have stored an absinthe one century to check, one will not know if thujone remains stable in l' wormwood or not"

She seems to say that nobody knows if thujone degrades over time. Benoit Noël, another serious French expert, has also pissed on the study. What was the real thujone level of fresh pre-ban? The boys who know their stuff say 80mg/l is likely.....

Old Nick said on Tue, 13 Jan 2009 at 20:59...

What did he say about thujone? In A comme Absinthe - Z comme Zola: L’Abécédaire de l’absinthe?

ty9 said on Wed, 14 Jan 2009 at 17:24...

Here he is:

“When the thujone level is lowered, one loses in taste and thus in flavour. All the know-how of the distiller consists in lowering thujone without losing in taste”

There's more:

Then in has like Wormwood - Z like Zola - the Alphabetical one of the Absinthe ( 2006), with the article “Thujone”, I dig the thorny question in connection with which I alerted my friend Ted Breaux, since 2001, at the time of its first visit to the Festival of the Wormwood of Boveresse. With knowing, isn't also reliable (and especially scientist?) to analyze modern samples of wormwoods made according to historical receipes when it is known that since 1907, number of distillers, tired of the attacks out of cut regulated against the wormwood, replaced Artemisia absinthium by a vegetable land-mark (armoise, sage, centaury, rosemary, mint, camomile…), preceding in that, the law which will make them obligation of it, in 1912? However, it goes without saying the majority of the historical bottles that one nowadays discovers in such or such forgotten cellar were produced of 1912 to 1915, i.e., I do not fear to put the points on “I”, without Artemisia absinthium!

The translation is rough, but he seems to suggest that from 1907 they were already deliberately lowering the thujone levels to combat the anti-thujone lobby. What?

Here is the conclusion:

"D’où il s’ensuit que la plupart des bouteilles de marque d’avant la prohibition qui se négocient aujourd’hui si cher ne sont pas conformes aux recettes originelles et partant dépourvues d’amertume, mais ceci est une autre histoire"

"From where it follows that the majority of the bottles of mark of before prohibition which are negotiated today so expensive are not in conformity with the original receipes and therefore deprived of bitterness, but this is another history"

So real old absinthe was deliciously bitter from the thujone bite?

Flora said on Wed, 28 Jan 2009 at 10:28...

"It is the year 1893. A basement cafe, Place St. Michel, Paris. The air is fetid with tobacco smoke, mixed with the pungent, acrid odor of absinthe" Souce: PAUL VERLAINE His Absinthe-Tinted Song

Acrid odor? The smell of fresh wormwood methinks! and packed with thujone too. Modern absinthe = not bitter, why? Answer not enough wormood. Whyso an absinthe spoon and sucre if not to take away the bitter tang of mother nature's most noble creation, artemisia absinthium.

absinthe minus thujone = less bitterness and easier to sell to the crowds and the spider web of government bureaucracy.

Morp6 said on Thu, 29 Jan 2009 at 10:49...

Thujone & alcohol are opposites and thus the absinthe "effect"

Absinthe: attention performance and mood under the influence of thujone.
Dettling A, Grass H, Schuff A, Skopp G, Strohbeck-Kuehner P, Haffner HT. Institute of Forensic and Traffic Medicine, University of Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Germany.

CONCLUSIONS: As they are apparently opposed to the effect of alcohol, the reactions observed here can be explained by the antagonistic effect of thujone on the gamma-aminobutyric acid receptor. Similar alterations were observed for the other mood state dimensions examined.

ty9 said on Sat, 31 Jan 2009 at 11:31...

Back in the day they recognised an "exhibited narcotic effect"

"Wormwood is a stimulating tonic, resemling chamomile in it's effects, but stronger and more disagreeable.In small doses, it operates like the simple bitters: in larger excites the pulse, increases the heat of skin, produces headache,and is said to have exhibited narcotic effect"

A treatise on therapeutics, and pharmacology or materia medica - by George Bacon Wood - 1856

Zosimos said on Tue, 3 Feb 2009 at 14:46...

Thujone does have an effect on the absinthe drinker of course.

What it really comes down to is that the majority of information coming out on absinthe recently has come from a small group money mad distillers, whose interest is definitely in making their LOW-THUJONE absinthe generally accepted as the real absinthe of romantic legend. Pseudo-absinthes (like Absente with Southern Wormwood and no thujone at all) never sold all that well, so they want to be perceived as 100% authentic. Yes, my absinthe has got thujone, Mr Absinthe Buyer. No, my absinthe is "thujone-free", Mr FDA. See? They have to keep two plates spinning!!

The distillers own recent study in a German lab showed the content of a FEW historical absinthes, selected and supplied by them, were well above the now-legal level. They also dismiss the notion that thujone degrades over extended periods.....

Ouroboros!

THEABSINTHEPROFESSOR said on Thu, 26 Feb 2009 at 20:51...

Now see here! Sage (thujone bearing):

"In a recent British clinical trial a group of young adults given Sage extract were shown to feel significantly more contented, calm and alert within a few hours"

ALERT!!!! CALM!!!! Oh look it's an inhibitor like good old THUJONE on the GABA:

"Sage has been found to inhibit an enzyme called acetyl cholinesterase (AChE) which breaks down acetylchonine, an important neurotransmitter in the brain. Acetycholine is vital to cognitive functions including learning and memory"

Cainsblackdragon said on Thu, 19 Nov 2009 at 20:45...

Ok. There are many herbs and chemicals which have a variety of psycho-active components. Pick up any of the major herbal manuals of old or new and you can learn a lot. I do not recommend playing with Psychotropic’s as most, if not all, are poisonous and can cause a lot of harm. With most of these we do not understand what the active chemical is and/or how it works. Not to mention many of them working together in a synergistic type of an effect.
I have found Thujone to be mildly stimulating and it did seem to heighten my senses making me more aware of colors in my surroundings.
If you are drinking absinthe expecting to have an LSD type trip you will be very disappointed in the result. If you, however, choose to enjoy real absinthe and allow it to do whatever it will do and you are open to its effects you may enjoy it. I freely admit I did. The effect is subtle and did seem the enhance the conversation at the time.
In hind sight I still believe the conversation moved better and ideas flowed freer. This was under the influence of a total of 4 ounces of Absinthe distributed of 3 drinks over 4 hours of time.
Enjoy the Green Fairy

Old Nick said on Mon, 30 Jan 2012 at 11:48...

"Pierre Bonhote, the cantonal chemist for Neuchâtel.....

Bonhote told Le Matin that it was only during the prohibition period in the early part of the 20th century that absinthe contained a substance – thujone – in large enough quantities to induce hallucinations."

ty9 said on Sun, 5 Feb 2012 at 10:59...

Here's something I bet you didn't know (although it could be gossip, not sure) ....."Absinthe de Pontarlier" is getting an EU IGP (protected status) As I understand it the designation will contain a stipulation that the absinthe contains at least 20mg thujone! As opposed to zero thujone for the United States. This will make it impossible for the French to export their product "Absinthe de Pontarlier" to the USA I believe? Very odd.

Holy Joe said on Fri, 10 Feb 2012 at 16:48...

Is it true that all French absinthe has to have more than 7mg thujone in it now to be called absinthe? I believe that anything with less thujone must be label "spirit of wormwood" Is this correct?